COMversations at UNLV

Kevin Stoker

Welcome today to COMversations: stories from the faculty of the Department of Communication Studies at UNLV. And today, I'm here with my cohort co host, Dave Nourse.

Dave Nourse

Always a pleasure, my friend. Thank you so much.

Kevin Stoker

And Dr. Dave, and also we're here with Dr. Craig Hannigan. Hello, Craig is our assistant debate coach. Although we really have him as our debate coach, we're kind of working that out because he came in here as an assistant debate coach. And then we said, here, here are the keys to the kingdom. Craig, see how you can do with it and do all the jobs problem. And he has he's had that great attitude and everything. And Craig Just got done running this major High School tournament. Yeah, Craig, what was the most scariest thing about that experience?

Craig Hennigan

Oh, wow, there were so many scary things that happened with that experience, like when you have like 550 people coming in from out of town, from all across the country, like lots of things can go wrong. And, and the first thing was our initial hotel had actually backed out. So that was a big deal. Like, right before I was about to leave for Chicago for part of our winter break. I was like, oh, I need a new hotel. And now luckily, we got that remedied right away. And then, you know, like catering and like, dealing with like all the little things that could potentially go wrong. But I had some help. I had help with the outgoing director, Jake Thompson. He had like, did a lot of consulting with me and like, talk me down off the cliff the night before where I'm like, Are you sure you just can't be on site the whole time? Like, he's like, No, I'm not going to do that. You'll be fine. And it was fine. People did leave, like very happy with how the tournament operated, how everything ran out of time, which is very unusual for debate tournaments. And lots of compliments on the food, which should be

Dave Nourse

Always a good thing.

Craig Hennigan

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, because like, yeah, like, little things like the food people remember that? When when they're deciding if they want to come back again. And so yeah, we hit it out of the ballpark. For this first time around and definitely learned some things to tweak for the next time around to.

Kevin Stoker

Does it bring back memories? Were you a debater in high school?

Craig Hennigan

I was a debater in high school. I was not the best debater in high school. I wasn't bad. My high school career was characterize of going three wins two losses at every tournament and not quite getting to the elimination rounds. Every single tournament was like that. Just about very few did I actually make it to the elimination rounds. I wasn't really a bad debater. But I wasn't like the best either. But I enjoyed it a lot. You know, I enjoyed it quite a bit. And in fact, when I started taking it a little less seriously, I started like winning a lot more. Because of the relaxation that came in where it's like, it doesn't matter. If I lose today, like it's you're enjoying the activity. And that's, that's what matters.

Kevin Stoker

Well, that sounds like a really important kind of turning point for you.

Craig Hennigan

It was it was because like I had, I had some health issues in high school and the doctor was straight up like, you're taking debate so seriously that you're getting sick right before every debate tournament for a reason. Right? And so yeah, he was like, you probably have the beginnings of an ulcer. So you need to relax. And I did. And it's just been great. Like ever since because it's the teams that I work with. Now. They're like, Oh, you don't really get mad at us when we lose some like, it doesn't. You had coaches that did they're like, yeah, like, no, that's not how we're going to operate. I'll get mad at you if you didn't like try your best, right, but I'm not gonna get mad at you if you lose.

Kevin Stoker

Let's great. So did you kind of feel an inkling that that time that you know, hey, I, I love debate. But I'm more love the idea of helping others with debate, more than pursuing my own career with debate. You know, when was that kind of we kind of look for the person that kind of the coaching philosophy. You know, when did the coach emerge out of there?

Craig Hennigan

Yeah, um, when I was coaching at a high school at West Bloomfield High School, we won the state championship. It was first time for that school. And it was also the first time that I had students that were that started as freshmen and like, ended his seniors. And that was the team that went all the way and that was like a big deal. It was a big accomplishment for me. I really enjoyed it. And like we had, I had a photo series of myself in my day with the trophy and everything, like a Stanley Cup type of thing. And so that was fun. And I was into it. But that still wasn't my career path. So it was just something that like I enjoyed doing as a side gig. I had lots of different career paths, but like throughout all of them, I realized later on, like, I'm still coaching and teaching debate, I'm still enjoying judging debate, like, why is that not my career path. And I walked into the office of George Segal Mueller at Wayne State, who the National Coach of the Year award is named after he just died a couple years ago, actually, but walked in and said, like, I would like to be a debate coach and like, like, teach in debate at the college level, and he says, I would hire you right now. I'm like, Well, I don't have a master's degree. He's like, Well, I guess you know what you have to do. And GAF, couple of years later, I signed up for grad school. And that's, that was the direction that I was going into.

Dave Nourse

Did you know from the time you were in high school and giving yourself ulcers, or almost giving yourself an ulcer, that this was one of the paths that you may want to go down? Or did that evolve? As you grew? And when you went through your collegiate experience? I'd be very curious, because as you mentioned, you've had a variety of career paths. But kind of the, what seems to draw you back is that debate and kind of being involved in the team in one way, shape, or form?

Craig Hennigan

He had debate, like, kind of, like people who would have been involved in debate who have like, been competitive and doing it for a long time will tell you that, like, it's it has an addictive property that like, you don't know what your life looks like without it, right? Or, like, if I know that, like, if I decided, I don't really want to do debate anymore, I would still be keeping up with what other people are doing that are in it, because there's so many people in that friend group, and I would miss it, like tremendously. So while like in high school, I was like, No, this is an avenue to learn more about like the state learn more about politics and things like that, because I wanted to be president, right. I went to college for political science, in my undergrad, didn't do calm until later learned much later. That was way more to learn about politics and calm for me than there was with what I was learning in political science. So it was a good mix. Right? But um, yeah, I was using debate as an avenue to other careers, and not thinking of it as a career itself. Because, yeah, I wasn't sure that I wanted to go to grad school. I didn't start grad school until nine years after my undergrad was completed.

Kevin Stoker

So what did you do in between that time, waited tables,

Craig Hennigan

worked at a casino, a Native American casino in in Michigan, worked as an admissions slash salesperson for the University of Phoenix for a hot second. Yeah, I have a few different things I want to do. I worked for a lobbyist. As a matter of fact, in Florida, that was one of my first like, real, this is going to be my career type of things. I was living in Tallahassee, worked for a lobbyist who had a variety of clients. They're like, Well, was he a Republican or Democrat? It's like, yes, he's had everything from police unions to tow truck unions, to cities that he would lobby for to the nudist colonies in Florida, right? So learned a lot about like the backstage workings of government what lobbyists actually do, like, what, how how much of it is like actually quite boring and not as dirty and dramatic as people think. So did that did the casino thing thought I wanted to be in Casino management. Then decided against it. Actually, on my first trip to Vegas, I decided I was that wasn't what I wanted to do. Nothing against it at all. I was just like, what living out here? It would have been like being at work all day and all night. You know, it's just always there. But yeah, a few different things I was doing, like doing the sales thing was I thought that was going to be an avenue right public speaking persuasion debate. Seems like a natural fit for sales for University of Phoenix, like it was working for a while, but then I just didn't believe in the product anymore. But yeah, so it wasn't until much much later that I'm like that I was again, waiting tables. I wanted to be a sommelier at that point. So yeah, a lot of things in between. That I was thinking was going to be it until I realized like, I've always done this speech and debate thing, no matter what other career path I was doing. And so that was the calling.

Kevin Stoker

So when you decide and where are you in town OSA, hassy When you decide to go back to school,

Craig Hennigan

no, that was when I was back in Michigan and after Tallahassee, I lived in Atlanta for a second. And then I kind of like, you know, had a fall on my face moment, right, amassed a bunch of debt, came back home to the Detroit area. Had a former friend in the debate community gave me a job waiting tables. That's where I started to learn more about food and drink and wine and things like that. Started working different fine dining jobs, enjoying waiting on celebrities and things like that. And then, but then I had one person who was in grad school for English at Wayne State University, who was waiting tables with me. And she was a big influence to be like, You should go back and do this, you should go back because like you do love debate. You are coaching still, like why are you wasting your time at this restaurant? I'm like, well, there's nothing wrong with this restaurant. She's like, Yeah, but you could do more than this.

Kevin Stoker

So actually was a decade past. After having that meeting with the grand debater debate coach, you it took a decade before you return to the classroom, I might have

Craig Hennigan

the timeline a little bit messed up. It was probably about two years after that, that meeting. That was after I came back to Detroit and everything like i So Okay.

Kevin Stoker

Okay. So then you got your masters at Wayne State.

Craig Hennigan

Yep. And your PhD also at Wayne State, I was going to apply elsewhere. Because it's usually good to get a broader mix. But they had offered me a teaching assistantship during my master's program. So it wasn't just that wasn't paying for the tuition of the PhD was also like, half of my master's was covered, too. And so it was like, plus, like Detroit was home. Yeah. So that makes a big difference, especially since my dissertation research ended up being about Detroit. So it was like convenient to like, stay there as well.

Dave Nourse

Tell us a little bit about the transition to becoming a coach. So while you were working some of these other careers, either waiting tables or selling for a for profit, not to be named, higher education institution. Were you still involved with debate at that point? were you teaching high school? Were you were you volunteering? Like, how did that come about? I mean, it seems like and I hate to kind of belabor this point, but it's like, this is an anchor in your life to in a way. And and did you look at it as anything more than you know, this is something I like, and it's way that I can give back? Or did you kind of always have in the back of your mind somewhere that I'm just not done with this. I'm just really curious, I might call it more of a magnet, alright, than an anchor. There we go. magnet that sounds much better. Kevin.

Craig Hennigan

I'm a big part of his like, competitive, competitive spirit. And I, it doesn't matter if you win or lose, but it's a lot more fun when you win. Right? And like, I enjoy that, right? I enjoy also, like when you have like newer debaters and you see them get it, right when you like, explain to them a strategy that you want them to use it around, they use it, they're like, Oh my God, this worked. Right? And it's like, is that that feeling? Where it's like, yeah, like, I can't be in the debate round anymore. But I can help you to, like, get to that next level two levels that I wasn't able to get to, at least in the high school level. Like, that's a big deal. That's, that's important to me. Because like it allows me to, like still be a part of the competition. Right. And so that competitive spirit like is, is a driver.

Kevin Stoker

One of the things you got to know about crec if you go in his office, there's all this sports memorabilia. It's true. How did that happen? You know, I you and I've talked about this before and I I find it fascinating. Especially baseball, right?

Craig Hennigan

Yeah, I am drinking out of my Miguel Cabrera. Bottle right now.

Kevin Stoker

I need to grow up. I grew up in Detroit, the Detroit Tigers, you know, was probably huge.

Craig Hennigan

Yeah. Yeah. I like I was a kid during the last World Series in 1984. Where we actually won Jack Morris, Jack Morris, Rambo Whitaker, right Darrell Evans over at first base and or Dave Berkman. Darrell Evans, da Qing maybe Larry Herndon chat Lebbon. I'm trying to think of like who the right fielder was. I'm not sure right now. But yeah. Yeah, that was the generation and then we had the Pudge Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez generation, like where I really got back. I was still into the Tigers before then, but like really got back into it. My dad raised me on Red Wings. He was a big hockey guy. So Red Wings and tigers was is basically my household. You know, that's just a big part of like, I guess the big part of like Detroit sports identity, right? You like latch on to your teams, and you stick with them and everything like that. Although being here, like, everyone in the hallways definitely convinced me to be a Golden Knights fan. And this year might be a better might be a better option. All right.

Dave Nourse

So we've talked about your kind of inert sense of competition. And we've talked a little bit about how growing up in Detroit, you felt both the jubilation and the despair of the Detroit sports fan? What are some folks who maybe have never had you in class? Or never had you as a coach? What are some things that folks might be surprised to learn about you?

Craig Hennigan

In, like, in regard to the class or anything, I

Dave Nourse

think I'm gonna I'm gonna open this up for anything, because we'll get to class in a minute. But now it's just kind of about you, Couric? And it could be about how you grew up or kind of what you like, or, I mean, I find it fascinating that you wanted to be a Somali a at one point. So it probably means, you know, you learned a lot about wine, but like, what do you think some folks would just be surprised? To know or to learn about you in, in the sense of, it's just like, Okay, I'm reading a book by its cover, or judging a book by its cover over here. And this just came right out of left field to use a baseball term,

Craig Hennigan

I guess, like some people are surprised that like I used to be, and I'm trying to get back into like doing triathlon. So yeah, I love running. And like, I need to get back into doing some more now that winter is like clearing up. I love cycling, and I need to get doing that some more. But yeah, I really want to like, do another triathlon. Out here, I hear there's one that's going to use the UNLV pool or something like that is like the swim parks. I'm like, how are you going to do a triathlon in the desert? So I'm going to look into that and like, try and get back into that I really want to get three triathlons in in one season. Because that puts you on the national rankings, not that I would be any good. Right? But just I just want to see my name on it. Right?

Dave Nourse

We get back to that internal competition. Yeah.

Craig Hennigan

Only competing against myself. Definitely. Right. I don't go into like golf or triathlon, trying to beat the other person, you just try and play against yourself.

Kevin Stoker

So how does this competitor then, kind of transition to the classroom? Tell us about your teaching?

Craig Hennigan

Yeah, it's very different in the classroom in the classroom, like when we have debates, like we have our fun balloon debates where the class will will vote who wins and loses. And that's like, there are four people that in a hot air balloon like celebrities or something like that. And your each person has to defend someone, they'll they'll vote on a winner and loser on that, right is they're all systematically thrown out of the balloon to their deaths. But for our like, actual, like debates about policy, at the end, we don't designate wins and losses. Because like, I'm not trying to create friction in the classroom, right. And also, like, everyone has the opportunity to improve upon things, right. So like, evaluating for a winner and loser like in a class situation, like I, I don't see like the point of that, because it's not going to affect their grade that much. They a lot of times the students are like, but I want to know if I want I'm like, what, what does it matter? Like, don't you want your grade instead? Like, that's probably the thing that you're more concerned about, right? Let's talk about like, what you did really well. Let's talk about the things that you can do in your second debate, that you can knock it out of the park for next time, too. So for in the classroom, like I'm pretty like, cognizant, I'm pretty cognizant of like, what could potentially lead things down a bad path, right. And so, if the, if the people are really hung up on winning or losing, I'm just like, Okay, you all lose, right? It's practice, like, that's how it is, well, my team's done a practice today, we don't designate winners or losers on the team, either, because we don't try and create that extra friction or anything like that. We just talk about what we can do to get better for next time.

Dave Nourse

What elements of being a coach do you find really help you as a teacher? And what elements of being a coach might not be the most helpful as a teacher? I'm just really curious because you've written so many things are connected, but then there are some very distinct differences.

Craig Hennigan

Being at UNLV. In particular, there's a big element where I have to be coaching a lot of people who don't have a lot of debate experience. There's not a ton of certain styles of debate in South Southern Nevada. So being a coach of novice debaters like translates directly to the classroom because most people in the classroom have never seen a debate in their life either. Right? And so we teach like a couple of days different styles of debate. So there were like promoting the critical thinking that they really, really need while also promoting a lot of like, how do we structure things, right? Because a lot of people have good arguments, they have good ideas. They don't know how to structure it into a way to where you it's an effective argument, right. And so that's a coaching helps to do that. Because in the debate community, when we're coaching debates, it's all about structure, right? You have to have a particular format and way that you're doing things in order for people to understand and score it. Right. And so that helps to translate that structure into the classroom to because if they can, like argue with with structure, then later on, when they're having more informal debates, they can at least remember how things are supposed to be ordered. And also like notice when other people are leaving parts out, right? Where you're like, hey, like, I don't think that you mentioned like, why this wouldn't already happen, right? Why this doesn't happen in the status quo or something, right? And notice, like the weaknesses and errors and other people's arguments more easily because they have that training.

Dave Nourse

So I have a very, it's a hard hitting question over here. What do you feel about Detroit style pizza?

Craig Hennigan

I think it's great. I'll tell you why. Like, I'm not a hater, though. I'm not all like, oh, New York is bad or anything. I think I even like Chicago style, like a lot. I do. I think it's funny because like 10 years ago, no one would even call it Detroit style pizza, right? They were just like, that's buddy's pizza, or like, it's square pizza is how we would say it at home. And then people are like, Oh, it's Detroit style pizza like, Oh, we're a thing now. Okay, interesting. The only one that I would hate on is St. Louis style. So like all all, having lived in Missouri as well on a lot of people loved e most pizza in St. Louis. Not so much. Not so. Not so good.

Kevin Stoker

You know, of going back to your Detroit childhood, tell us about growing up your family and everything tells you a little bit about that.

Craig Hennigan

Yeah. I have a very like, like, I might have a dad and mom who divorced when I was five. So I have a stepmom and a stepdad right, and like two stepsisters and a half brother and a full brother. And so it was probably the most amicable divorce of all time. We literally switched houses every two weeks, they lived less than a mile apart from each other. So I was in the suburbs of Detroit growing up and then later on in grad school, I lived in the city proper. Had a good good childhood good schools, right. I had a very lucky and privileged upbringing. Today, I have a partner in town. And she has two daughters. And I have two dogs. And I'm living out in Henderson enjoying it. And might have to like find a more permanent residence sometime in the future. But we'll see. We got to, we got to like see what's out there and everything else.

Dave Nourse

What do you do for fun? It's the weekend you're kicking back. But you like

Craig Hennigan

I like to drink? No. I do enjoy. I enjoy golfing. Although I haven't been able to get out yet. I like to cycle. My partner. She loves hiking, so we go hiking a lot. Hiking is nice because it's cheap. It's one of the few things that you can do for nothing in this town. Right. And there's a lot of really great places to hike to. It just seems that I'm not used to like being a Midwesterner, like the idea of scrambling over a boulder. We're like, what what is this like? So like, that's exciting to me. I'm like, this is just really weird. Other people were say so excited for snow last week when we got snow up like this is not exciting to me at all. But when we see our first when I see my first dust storm, I'm gonna be like, Wow, this is really cool. While everyone else is saying this is horrible.

Kevin Stoker

Well, you know what's been the fun things you've done here to have you gone out the Valley of Fire and

Craig Hennigan

my partner did I did not I went we did go and hike or out at Red Rock. Go there. That was good. I'm going to omega Mart on Thursday, actually. So I guess that's the thing. And I might go and see a show I have a friend coming in from out of town so they want to like go and do all these things. I might go and see a show as well like one of The Mentalist or something like that. So do those like traditionally Vegas see things like tourist for a few days? Oh, yeah. I mean, like I've got lots of opportunities to play tours. I might as well write. Good, because like I'm going to always have I'm sure there's always going to be a family member or someone from out of town. He's all like, Hey, I'm coming to Vegas. What are you doing? Right, right? Yeah. I presume that something that happens it happens

Kevin Stoker

all the time. Backs happens more than that, you know,

Dave Nourse

here that probably just about any other place ever, which shouldn't be

Kevin Stoker

what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It's what company comes around stays in Vegas. Your house?

Craig Hennigan

Yes. Yes. That's exactly what's happening. Yes.

Kevin Stoker

So So Craig, is there a question we should have asked you. The we haven't something that we should have asked you about that. The really reveals who Craig Hannigan is,

Craig Hennigan

you know, I'm gonna like I'm gonna plug something here. Right. We're holding a debater of the year tournament for comp students, right. And we're giving away $500. And we are doing a more accessible form of debate that it's going to be like, relatively easy to get into very easy to get into. And we want to do this for the comp department. We want to, like provide a service to the comm department through the debate team. And we we are, we've got at least four comp students involved, right. So I take for more definitely, if they want to have a shot at winning a $500. That's great. But also like you get to have a good time and like enjoy, like learning about how to like formulate arguments and do some debates in a very low pressure, low pressure type of way. And we're very proud of what we're doing with that right now. And so that's what our main focus is right now.

Kevin Stoker

That's awesome. Well, Craig, thanks for the time. We appreciate having you with us.

Craig Hennigan

Thanks a lot. I appreciate the opportunity.